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	<title>Comments on: Betrayal 2.0</title>
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	<link>http://designswarm.com/blog/2007/02/04/betrayal-20/</link>
	<description>thoughts about people, technology and when they collide</description>
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		<title>By: deko</title>
		<link>http://designswarm.com/blog/2007/02/04/betrayal-20/comment-page-1/#comment-1566</link>
		<dc:creator>deko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 15:44:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://designswarm.com/blog/2007/02/04/betrayal-20/#comment-1566</guid>
		<description>I agree with you Alexandra,
we joined flickr not yahoo!

here is my metaphor:
if we are &quot;old skool&quot;, why we need to pass the entry exhamination again?

*I had a yahoo account 5 years ago but it&#039;s impossible to recover (I invented all my info, and of course I don&#039;t remember anything) so now I can&#039;t use my username :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you Alexandra,<br />
we joined flickr not yahoo!</p>
<p>here is my metaphor:<br />
if we are &#8220;old skool&#8221;, why we need to pass the entry exhamination again?</p>
<p>*I had a yahoo account 5 years ago but it&#8217;s impossible to recover (I invented all my info, and of course I don&#8217;t remember anything) so now I can&#8217;t use my username :(</p>
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		<title>By: Alexandra Deschamps-Sonsino</title>
		<link>http://designswarm.com/blog/2007/02/04/betrayal-20/comment-page-1/#comment-1561</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexandra Deschamps-Sonsino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 10:51:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://designswarm.com/blog/2007/02/04/betrayal-20/#comment-1561</guid>
		<description>Yes, this really has little to do with the process of signing in of course, more to do with the principles under which I became a flickr member to begin with and where I put my 24,95 :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, this really has little to do with the process of signing in of course, more to do with the principles under which I became a flickr member to begin with and where I put my 24,95 :)</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://designswarm.com/blog/2007/02/04/betrayal-20/comment-page-1/#comment-1559</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 10:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://designswarm.com/blog/2007/02/04/betrayal-20/#comment-1559</guid>
		<description>I was as pissed of as you where (and still am, to the amazement of some colleagues) but when I noticed it took me exactly 1 minute to bind my existing Yahoo account to my Flickr account, I was wondering what I was so upset about in the first place :) If you don&#039;t have a Yahoo account, it&#039;ll be a different ballgame I guess, but still not REALLY that difficult right? It&#039;s the thought that counts ofcourse, true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was as pissed of as you where (and still am, to the amazement of some colleagues) but when I noticed it took me exactly 1 minute to bind my existing Yahoo account to my Flickr account, I was wondering what I was so upset about in the first place :) If you don&#8217;t have a Yahoo account, it&#8217;ll be a different ballgame I guess, but still not REALLY that difficult right? It&#8217;s the thought that counts ofcourse, true.</p>
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		<title>By: Janne</title>
		<link>http://designswarm.com/blog/2007/02/04/betrayal-20/comment-page-1/#comment-1554</link>
		<dc:creator>Janne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 07:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://designswarm.com/blog/2007/02/04/betrayal-20/#comment-1554</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m pissed off as well.  One of the advantages of being an early adopter is that you get to pick your login id.  I have so many places I have accounts on that it is generally very advantageous to have the same id all over the place - otherwise you just forget them.

With Flickr I had my preferred id.  With yahoo, there&#039;s no chance, because all good id&#039;s have already been taken by spambots and other evil things.  I have a yahoo id, but that is only to collect spam email, and I would not even dare to announce it in public, so I will need to have *yet another* yahoo id.  And that, frankly, sucks.  Even that id took like 20 attempts, because all the id&#039;s I could think of were already taken, until I started inputting random Finnish curse words into the system.

Unfortunately, I don&#039;t think there are good replacements right now for Flickr.  But yeah, I&#039;m pissed off enough to switch if I could find a new one that I could use a good id on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m pissed off as well.  One of the advantages of being an early adopter is that you get to pick your login id.  I have so many places I have accounts on that it is generally very advantageous to have the same id all over the place &#8211; otherwise you just forget them.</p>
<p>With Flickr I had my preferred id.  With yahoo, there&#8217;s no chance, because all good id&#8217;s have already been taken by spambots and other evil things.  I have a yahoo id, but that is only to collect spam email, and I would not even dare to announce it in public, so I will need to have *yet another* yahoo id.  And that, frankly, sucks.  Even that id took like 20 attempts, because all the id&#8217;s I could think of were already taken, until I started inputting random Finnish curse words into the system.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I don&#8217;t think there are good replacements right now for Flickr.  But yeah, I&#8217;m pissed off enough to switch if I could find a new one that I could use a good id on.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://designswarm.com/blog/2007/02/04/betrayal-20/comment-page-1/#comment-1549</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2007 23:07:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://designswarm.com/blog/2007/02/04/betrayal-20/#comment-1549</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not about the business decision. I understand the reasoning behind that.

Having had a little more time to think about this issue (aside from my three posts the other day), this is what I think is at stake. The romantic notion that people have held about community in relation to social networking has been revealed to be just that: a romantic notion. What &quot;community&quot; means, really, is getting critical mass for your service so that you can sell it to Google or Yahoo or Microsoft.

Call me naive for thinking anything other than that when looking at these social networking web services. I for one will never look at another online service again in quite the same way, knowing that by virtue of my free labor a group of people may very well make millions of dollars, all in the name of &quot;community&quot;.

I suppose that sounds like a bunch of homesteaders complaining about the new neighbors 10 miles away.

But, you may argue, nothing&#039;s really changed at Flickr with all this Yahoo business. Mechanically it&#039;s all the same (OK, with some login changes). Ah, but what *has* changed is the story—and I think this is key—the story that went in hand with the community that we all created. Building Flickr was very much a group effort on the part of both the creators and the people who supplied the photos and the comments and the community, and I think that in this process everyone became at least a little invested. Perhaps that feeling of investment was misinterpreted to mean ownership as well.

I&#039;m getting kind of tired sounding like a broken record on this issue, so that&#039;s about where I&#039;ll leave things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not about the business decision. I understand the reasoning behind that.</p>
<p>Having had a little more time to think about this issue (aside from my three posts the other day), this is what I think is at stake. The romantic notion that people have held about community in relation to social networking has been revealed to be just that: a romantic notion. What &#8220;community&#8221; means, really, is getting critical mass for your service so that you can sell it to Google or Yahoo or Microsoft.</p>
<p>Call me naive for thinking anything other than that when looking at these social networking web services. I for one will never look at another online service again in quite the same way, knowing that by virtue of my free labor a group of people may very well make millions of dollars, all in the name of &#8220;community&#8221;.</p>
<p>I suppose that sounds like a bunch of homesteaders complaining about the new neighbors 10 miles away.</p>
<p>But, you may argue, nothing&#8217;s really changed at Flickr with all this Yahoo business. Mechanically it&#8217;s all the same (OK, with some login changes). Ah, but what *has* changed is the story—and I think this is key—the story that went in hand with the community that we all created. Building Flickr was very much a group effort on the part of both the creators and the people who supplied the photos and the comments and the community, and I think that in this process everyone became at least a little invested. Perhaps that feeling of investment was misinterpreted to mean ownership as well.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m getting kind of tired sounding like a broken record on this issue, so that&#8217;s about where I&#8217;ll leave things.</p>
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		<title>By: Alexandra</title>
		<link>http://designswarm.com/blog/2007/02/04/betrayal-20/comment-page-1/#comment-1546</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2007 22:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://designswarm.com/blog/2007/02/04/betrayal-20/#comment-1546</guid>
		<description>Ha! Well i&#039;m one of those people who uses POP3 for my gmail account and no, doesn&#039;t have a Yahoo account.

Yes of course I should probably be more mad at Yahoo than anyone else, it&#039;s harder to get mad at a company with no face or forum and nothing that&#039;s particularly appealing to me at the moment apart from this particular piece of virtual real estate that is Flickr. 

I&#039;m not angry either, takes a lot for me to be angry, just a bit ticked off : ) besides i dont think i&#039;m the only person to share that feeling and if i am, well that would make me more special then ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha! Well i&#8217;m one of those people who uses POP3 for my gmail account and no, doesn&#8217;t have a Yahoo account.</p>
<p>Yes of course I should probably be more mad at Yahoo than anyone else, it&#8217;s harder to get mad at a company with no face or forum and nothing that&#8217;s particularly appealing to me at the moment apart from this particular piece of virtual real estate that is Flickr. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not angry either, takes a lot for me to be angry, just a bit ticked off : ) besides i dont think i&#8217;m the only person to share that feeling and if i am, well that would make me more special then ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Smith</title>
		<link>http://designswarm.com/blog/2007/02/04/betrayal-20/comment-page-1/#comment-1544</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2007 22:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://designswarm.com/blog/2007/02/04/betrayal-20/#comment-1544</guid>
		<description>A bit ridiculous, I think, Alex.

It isn&#039;t as if the people who work at Flickr want this, they&#039;ve fought it off from Yahoo as long as they could but at some point you don&#039;t have any more arguments to make, they did their best to make it as painless as possible for everybody involved.

I don&#039;t know what your personal experience with Yahoo has been, but Flickr has remained a very special group within it and they&#039;ve done everything to keep what made them special in spite of Yahoo&#039;s acquisition, I feel getting mad at Flickr for this is misplaced, Yahoo, if anyone, should be the target of your ire.

I personally think it a bit exaggerated to get angry in the first place, if you haven&#039;t already picked up a Yahoo account somewhere in the course of being on the internet you are definitely the exception rather than the rule, and beyond the idea of signing up for a Yahoo account if you somehow don&#039;t have one there isn&#039;t anything painful here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A bit ridiculous, I think, Alex.</p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t as if the people who work at Flickr want this, they&#8217;ve fought it off from Yahoo as long as they could but at some point you don&#8217;t have any more arguments to make, they did their best to make it as painless as possible for everybody involved.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what your personal experience with Yahoo has been, but Flickr has remained a very special group within it and they&#8217;ve done everything to keep what made them special in spite of Yahoo&#8217;s acquisition, I feel getting mad at Flickr for this is misplaced, Yahoo, if anyone, should be the target of your ire.</p>
<p>I personally think it a bit exaggerated to get angry in the first place, if you haven&#8217;t already picked up a Yahoo account somewhere in the course of being on the internet you are definitely the exception rather than the rule, and beyond the idea of signing up for a Yahoo account if you somehow don&#8217;t have one there isn&#8217;t anything painful here.</p>
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